Grace Health with Therese Mannheimer and Roman Jasins: GCPPodcast Episode 156

Grace Health with Therese Mannheimer and Roman Jasins: GCPPodcast Episode 156


[MUSIC PLAYING] MARK MANDEL: Hi, and welcome
to episode number 156 of the weekly “Google
Cloud Platform Podcast.” I’m Mark Mandel, and I’m here
with my colleague, Melanie Warrick. You are back! Yay! MELANIE WARRICK: Yay! Just for a minute, because
there’s a lot of smoke outside. MARK MANDEL: Yeah. MELANIE WARRICK: How
are you doing, Mark? MARK MANDEL: It’s nicer
inside than it is outside. San Francisco is
having a fun time. MELANIE WARRICK: It’s definitely
been very difficult lately. MARK MANDEL: Excellent. So who are we talking to today? MELANIE WARRICK: Yes,
it is Therese and Roman, who are with Grace.health. And so we’re going to talk
to them about their company and the work they do
for women’s health, especially from a
worldwide perspective. But yeah. It’s a good interview. I’m really glad we got a
chance to capture this one. As we do, we will start out with
our cool things of the week. And we will end with the
question of the week. And the question of the week
is, with background cloud functions, how can I set
up to retry on failure? I do not know. But I’m sure I will know
by the end of the podcast. MARK MANDEL: You will. MELANIE WARRICK: I will. MARK MANDEL: You will. MELANIE WARRICK:
Anyways, all right, Mark. Do you want to kick off the
cool things of the week? MARK MANDEL: Sure. So coming up first, one
of our favorite– well, one of our favorite? They’re all our
favorite teammates. Let’s be honest. MELANIE WARRICK: We
don’t pick favorites? MARK MANDEL: Yeah, we don’t. MELANIE WARRICK: We do. But we don’t. But we do! MARK MANDEL: Yeah. They’re all our favorites. MELANIE WARRICK: But
we kind of don’t. MARK MANDEL: One of our favorite
developer advocate friends, Gabe Weiss, has done
an IoT applications on Google Cloud video,
which is a recap of the stuff he did at Next. It’s about a
three-and-a-half-minute presentation, that you can
get basically the gist of what he’s talking about
very, very quickly. MELANIE WARRICK: Yes. You should check that out
if you want to play around with IoT on Google Cloud. Another one we
want to mention is this blog post on
subatomic particles and big data, which is basically
about Google joining the CERN lab– CERN openlab, to be specific. And this is really
an opportunity where CERN is using Google Cloud
to help advance and improve upon what they do and the kind
of data that they collect. So it’s really interesting. I mean, CERN– we’ve
talked about it before. We have a podcast that
we did earlier this year. And so if you want to hear more
about how Google Cloud is going to be supporting
their data needs, you can check out
this blog post. MARK MANDEL: Awesome. MELANIE WARRICK: Yeah. MARK MANDEL: Speaking of
favorite developer advocates, we have yet another
one on the list. Favorite developer
advocate Mete Atamel did a blog post recently talking
about Istio routing basics. Basically, they have taken– they’re building
basically a “hello world” app from the ground up,
using Istio, and taking you through all the steps,
which actually is something I really want to go through. So if you’re interested
in Istio but you want a very basic
step-by-step tutorial taking you through
that, you may want to check out this blog post. MELANIE WARRICK: And
last but not least, Amy Unruh, who is one of our
colleagues as well and– MARK MANDEL: Favorite
developer advocate as well, just to be clear. MELANIE WARRICK: Always. Everybody. Everybody’s favorite. And Amy was also on the
podcast earlier this year. She just released
a blog post that talks about the
Kubeflow pipelines and how you get
started with them. And I know you guys did
a lot of Kubeflow stuff last week, so this is a nice
little follow-on to that. This will basically help you– it’s a component of Kubeflow
that will help you compose, deploy, manage end-to-end
machine learning workflows. So if you want to
understand that and see a great example of it, you
can read her blog post. MARK MANDEL: Fantastic. Awesome. Should we go chat with
Therese and Roman? MELANIE WARRICK: I think
that sounds like a plan. MARK MANDEL: Let’s do it! MELANIE WARRICK: This
week, we have with us two wonderful people
from Grace.health. We have Therese Mannheimer,
who’s the founder, and we have Roman Jasins. Thank you both for joining us. THERESE MANNHEIMER: Thank you. ROMAN JASINS: Thank you. MELANIE WARRICK:
So Therese, can you tell us a little
bit about yourself? THERESE MANNHEIMER: Yes, sure. I have a business background,
and have been an entrepreneur the majority of my career,
starting different projects and also a foundation
working to drive opinion around female representation
in management teams and boards. But I’ve also spent around
seven years in a design agency, learning about design thinking,
business design strategy, and also how to really work with
real problems and challenges to be able to help more people
and build relevant services. MELANIE WARRICK: That’s great. And Roman, what about you? ROMAN JASINS: I’m a technologist
with a technical background. So I’ve been helping people like
Therese building their dream products and
services, and working very closely with engineers. Used to be an engineer
myself, way back. But then had to go
into management. MELANIE WARRICK: You had to. You were forced. ROMAN JASINS: But
I always enjoyed to triangulate between design,
product, and engineering. And that’s where I think the
most fun is, when it comes down to development. MELANIE WARRICK: Great. So Therese, I know
you’re the founder. Roman, what is your role,
again, on Grace.health? ROMAN JASINS: I’m CTO,
and co-founder as well. MELANIE WARRICK:
Co-founder as well. And so how did y’all come up
with– or what is Grace.health? THERESE MANNHEIMER:
We’re a company that wants to create change
worldwide and let women own the information and data
about their own body, so that they can make
more informed decisions. And we have a grand
vision to really make female health accessible to
all women across the globe. But we’ve broken it down
into steps to make it, like, where do we start? And what type of issues
do we address first? And so the first
thing we’re doing is building a what we’d
like to call female health companion that lets women
track and plan their period, understand their fertility
and reproductive health, and then ask all the questions
that they want on what’s happening around their
bodies, sexuality, identity, and everything related. MELANIE WARRICK: That’s great. Roman, was there anything
you wanted to add, in terms of the company
and the goals behind it? ROMAN JASINS: I think
this is very well summarized by Therese. And obviously, the
vision is global, so it needs to scale
globally, and be available literally for women in different
environments, different needs. THERESE MANNHEIMER:
I think what is worth adding is also that we
have looked at emerging markets as a very
interesting new market to try and build
things for, since many of the products
out there are built for more westernized markets. But we don’t intend to sort
of cut back on technology. We really want to build
high-end new technology things with a very
lightweight interface. So it’s still a very
high-tech company that we’re building, and with
very smart and interesting integrations. MARK MANDEL: Was there a
particular catalyst for this? Like, what was the
reasoning and the reasons behind when you
started this project? THERESE MANNHEIMER:
Both yes and no. I think, coming from a
business background just also had me have this more
economic perspective in mind. But then it was
really my background in a design agency
that helped me convert user insights into business. And that’s also what
I was working with. So understanding how
to transform user needs and behaviors into real
products and services that could generate an income
and be a valid business was something that I
couldn’t escape from. It just hit me really strongly. I want to solve real
issues for many people. And then at the same time, I
was part of building Allbright, that I mentioned, which is a
foundation that really wants to talk about meritocracy. And so what we as women
can do, when we just have the best possible platform
to do it, is incredible. And so those two fields
just merged for me, after leaving my previous job. And so I really wanted to see,
what if we take everything we know about this technology,
and make it much more accessible, and make it, like– what if we scale it back down? So that was the
embryo for the idea. And then we went for it. And so yes, now we’re building
a whole product and company around it. MELANIE WARRICK:
And what’s the goal, in terms of impact
that you’re trying to have with this product? THERESE MANNHEIMER: There
are many, of course. It’s almost impossible
to just name a couple. But we want all women
to feel informed enough to make decisions
for themselves. We want all children who
are coming into this world to be wanted. And we hope to really make sure
that all women and girls can go to school and
work, as they should, without ever having to be
sort of prevented by the fact that they’re women, and they
might be on their period. MELANIE WARRICK:
And actually, I just want to take a note of that,
from the standpoint of, for those who are listening
who may not know this, can you expand a little bit
more about that issue, why that’s an issue? THERESE MANNHEIMER: So
this is a huge issue that many, many, many
millions of women and girls around the globe are unable to
attend school and go to work, as they should, due to the
fact that there are stigmas and taboos around the world,
in different types of cultures, that tell us that women are
dirty, unclean, contagious, that you can catch
the demon, or many, all sorts of different
types of ideas that are generated
from way back, and that are not
founded in facts, but are really preventing
young girls and women to live their lives to the fullest. And it’s not only
an efficiency issue when it comes to girls and
women not going to school. That affects, of course,
national economics and socioeconomics, that only
half the population can really act and work to their fullest. But can you just imagine how
that must feel for someone, to feel dirty, or
to not be allowed to sleep inside the house
when you’re menstruating, for something so
simple as actually being able to give life. MELANIE WARRICK: Right. THERESE MANNHEIMER: There’s
a huge misconception. There’s a huge miseducation,
disinformation, and also just fables, made-up
stuff, that we want to break away from, and
really start to import, or give real access
to real knowledge, and sort of break away
from everything that has to do with taboos and stigma. MARK MANDEL: Nice. OK, so you have this
project you’re working on. But what is the project
that you’re building, and how does it
combat these problems? THERESE MANNHEIMER:
So what we’ve done is that we have had an
early-stage pilot that we launched in February. The embryo for
that was to really see if we can have girls
and women understand when their period is coming, and how
they can prepare for it best, to make sure they have a
collection method ready, to make sure they’re mentally
and emotionally prepared. But also, I mean,
period is something that many women can feel. But ovulation and
fertility and when you can become pregnant
and not, is something that most women don’t
know about, even in Western countries. MELANIE WARRICK: True. THERESE MANNHEIMER:
I didn’t even know about it before
I was pregnant, or I wanted to become pregnant. MELANIE WARRICK: True. THERESE MANNHEIMER: And so
just understanding, oh, this is what’s happening
in my body, and also being able to match symptoms
to what is, in fact, happening is super important to be able
to make informed decisions. So the idea was to make
something very lo-fi. And what we’ve done now is
we’ve created a service where you, inside of Facebook
Messenger, or Messenger Lite, currently, can use sort
of a conversational app. It’s a chat bot that you talk
to, basically like a friend. And so we say, Hi,
I’m Grace.health. I’m a female health companion. I’m a specialist
in female health. And you can ask me anything
about your reproductive cycle or fertility. And then we start asking
you about, how old are you? What’s your name? What do you want me to call you? When was your last period? And we collect
the data manually, but in a very conversational
and friendly way. And then we will ask
you about where you are, so that we can ping you timely. But then very much we’ll have
proactive pings on our end. We will know, if we also
know how long your cycle is, when to inform you best, and
give you a heads-up in time, notify you around your
period and fertile period. And we will also send you
information about education. Like, this is, if you’re
tired at this point, it can be due to hormonal
changes in your body. It’s normal to feel tired. So we have a lot of proactive
pings and notifications. But then we also have
a very extensive set of contents that is reactive,
which means that if you ask me, why is this happening? I have tender breasts. What type of discharge
am I experiencing? Is this normal? When can I get pregnant? When is my fertile period? We can also respond. So we are there, at
your convenience, 24/7, to also answer all
of your questions. MELANIE WARRICK: Wow. How did you build this? ROMAN JASINS: So it’s
what Therese already hinted, that there’s quite an
extensive library of content, that is nuanced and relevant
in different contexts. So there is a back-end platform
that Facebook Messenger, and more messengers in the
future, integrate into. And this is currently hosted
in Google Cloud, which kudos to you guys for building that. It makes our life
much easier, allows us to focus on the
core of the product, instead of worrying about
scalability and infrastructure management. And we’re storing all this
in quite dynamic database and model that is
changing as we learn and as we go along,
because in heart of it all is this predictive
algorithm, or model, that we coming up and trying,
because if you get the notifications
or the pings that we talked about in the wrong
time, then the value is lost. It needs to be timely. It needs to be in
the right chunk. And it needs to be served
in a way that is understood. Conversational UI
is great for this, because we’re
using it every day, and everyone feels comfortable. But is also quite open,
open-ended, in the way that user ask questions. So it’s easy, if you
get it done right. Otherwise, it could look quite
silly and unsophisticated. So there is an API,
obviously, that we built. And overall, setup is as
modular as we can keep it, at this point, in order for
us to stay agile and nimble, and adjust and calibrate as we
get more data from the users. And then there is several
integration points through which we deliver
the conversation experience through things like Messenger. MARK MANDEL: Are you using
out-of-the-box tools, like something like Dialogflow,
or something like that? Or are you rolling your own? Or how is that working? ROMAN JASINS: It’s a mix. We are heavily
relying on Dialogflow. And it helps us with
natural language processing and many other things. But since quite a lot
of what we’re doing doesn’t exist today– there is no tools that
predict your next period, or take all the variables
into the account– we had to build, and are
building, our own back end and libraries and APIs for
that, which we integrate. So if you would look
at how it’s set up, there are certain things that
we get through Dialogflow, or through Google tooling. But there are certain things
that we get directly and then send to Google, to
Dialogflow, in order to interpret it properly,
and then get it back and send it back to the user. MELANIE WARRICK: What are
some of the biggest challenges you have with the UI
that you’re building? ROMAN JASINS: It’s the fact
that it is so free for the user. There is a freedom of choice, so
how you interact, what you say, how you say it. Constraining people with menus,
or users with menus, and links, takes a lot of headache away. But when you have to expect
unexpected, and handle it in a way where it makes
sense to the user, that’s quite challenging. And it’s also very rewarding
when you get it right. So language processing,
natural language processing, and machine learning
is something that we breathe
and live every day. Scalability, of course,
something that we are aware and keeping top of the mind. But again, the
choices that we made, going with Google Platform,
also based on the fact that Google helps us
with scaling that part. So this is less of
a concern for us. But then again, since it’s
a global service, of course, it will be an issue as
we scale as a company. It’s the cultural
context, and how one thing that we
say or we hear means something else in a different
region of the world. This is more and more
becoming apparent. And we’re trying to find
interesting and creative ways to handling that. THERESE MANNHEIMER:
Can I also add that when it comes to UI, since
you asked about UIs also, that we have a UI at the moment
that is without visualization. And visualization– like
diagrams, infographics, anything that you can rest
your eye on, that has sort of a self-explanatory purpose– we don’t have at the moment. We will have, but
we have to rely on super intuitive content. We need to be super timely with
our pings and notifications. And so we’re basically
resting on having enough skills to really tell you
the same story without having support of any type of images. And that’s where the
tonality comes in, and the timings are
super important. But we are, of
course, also looking into how we can combine text
with visual stimuli going forward. But it’s an experimental effort. But of course it’s
super challenging when we’re only relying on text. MARK MANDEL: Nice. Roman, you mentioned
scalability, and how Google Cloud’s helping you with that. Can you dig a
little deeper there? I’m curious to hear, like,
you mentioned Dialogflow. Are there other particular
products that you’re using that maybe are the more, like,
platform-as-a-service, or anything like that, that
are really helping you solve the scalability problems? ROMAN JASINS: Absolutely. We’re storing data in Firebase. We relying on Google
functions, and generally, try to use as many managed
solutions that you have. Not always possible, because we
have our own needs that might not be supported at the time. So then we default to
compute instances and run our own solutions on it. In-memory store could be an
example of something like this. But yeah, basically the
entire stack, top to bottom, we keep as much as
possible in Google Cloud. MELANIE WARRICK: And I
imagine getting the data, too, is its own challenge. How are you engaging
with community? Or are there ways
for, if there’s others who are interested
in contributing to this, for them to engage with you? THERESE MANNHEIMER: That’s
a really good question. And at the moment,
we are very much focused on building
the core product. But the scalability
of these data sets, and the interest in them,
are of course something that’s driving us a lot. And so how not only
do we contribute, or how we collaborate
with others when they want to contribute to our
data set, but also how we can collaborate and
contribute to research, and to be part of
clinical trials that actually can
help build smarter services and products
and medicines for women relating
to female health. But all of this is yet to come. And we are in some
early discussions with really interesting
partners, but nothing that I can disclose at this moment. MELANIE WARRICK: That’s fair. My understanding is you’re
part of the startup program through Google. Is that right? THERESE MANNHEIMER:
Yeah, that’s right. MELANIE WARRICK: So
how has that been? What kind of support
have you received from the startup program? What has that been like? THERESE MANNHEIMER: Initially,
we had a contact with Daniel at Google, who has been
super helpful with making introductions. Of course, we were
granted credits that have been
very useful for us, since we’re a bootstrapping,
or a very cash-light entity, and trying to really save. Of course, credits have been
very valuable for us now, setting up. But also, Daniel has been
incredibly useful and helpful in connecting us to
the right resources, enabling smart collaborations
with different entities within your organization. But of course I think
we have still yet to explore to the full
capabilities of this program. I think there is much
more we can make use of. ROMAN JASINS: Absolutely. If I can add to that,
having access to the brains and to the experience that
engineers and designers and developers at Google
have is instrumental for us, because we coming up with
something that we haven’t seen yet done elsewhere. I mean, the chat bots,
or conversational UI, have been picking
up, and been solving quite interesting problems,
from customer service to automation of different
kind of mundane tasks. But we are trying to create a
real, meaningful conversation where you don’t necessarily
perform linear tasks. You sometimes just need
to talk and find out whether what you’re
experiencing is normal or not. So creating something
that doesn’t break in those scenarios
is not trivial. And we often feel that what
we trying to design actually is not mainstream, and may be
even far from being mainstream, might not even be
possible for a while. So having someone that
you can bounce this with, and having dialogue, is
very important for informing our road map, what we
focus on, not just solving specific problems, the
technical problems, that we’re facing today. So we would love to do
more, as much as possible, of this kind of interactions. MELANIE WARRICK: Nice. Well, I want to take it to
one other question that’s a little different,
but similar, in terms of your data and the data
that you’re working with and the community
you’re working with. How are you helping to
ensure their, I guess, privacy of information,
if they want that? ROMAN JASINS: First of
all, we try to never ask something we don’t need. User is always in focus,
and we only ask for things that we need to have
in order to be precise, to be relevant, and
calibrate for the user. Then, obviously, even though
we process and store the data, it is user data. And if for some
reason they decide to discontinue
using Grace, that’s the choice that we will respect,
and remove or release data to them. And we’re also clear
with the intent before you start using
the service, what we do and why we ask for
certain things. THERESE MANNHEIMER:
I think also, it’s very, very
important to stress that we’re dealing with the
most sensitive of health data you can ever imagine. And so of course data
encryption, data security, the storage of the data
is incredibly important, so that we will never
be facing being hacked, or any type of leakage of
this data, since it’s probably the most sensitive data
you can ever come across. So ensuring each and every
user’s integrity and privacy is top priority for us. And it’s also very
important, for example, since we have a
business model that entails the handling of data,
which means that we want all of our users and
the women to understand the value of the data
that we have on them, and to also have them
grant access whenever we suggest a collaboration or
say, you seem to be pregnant! Could this be of interest, to
talk to an insurance provider that we are partnering with? That is semi-dealing
with their data, but something that
they give consent to. So having our users understand
the terms of service is not only something we want
them to agree on, but also understand, because it’s
part of the education of why it’s valuable. MELANIE WARRICK: That’s great. MARK MANDEL: That’s amazing. I’m also just curious, just
generally speaking as well, do you collaborate with any
other women’s health programs or non-profits or
any groups like that? THERESE MANNHEIMER:
Good question. And of course, that is a very
natural collaboration setup for us. We are in a couple of
discussions, actually. And at this moment,
we are mainly focusing on developing
the product, and making sure that
it’s so good that we can scale quite rapidly. And what we’re doing
now is creating smart and strategic partnerships
with little bit smaller groups. But we’re also talking
to bigger NGOs, as this service could be
an excellent leave-behind. And as you know, you’ve
mentioned FEM International. Many of these organizations– UN, for example, Doctors Without
Borders, Hunger Project– they leave, they
go out, and they do educations in schools
and in homes and in houses. And we want Grace there to be
a perfect leave-behind, that could not only measure the
success rate of this education, but also successfully
measure behavioral change. MARK MANDEL: Excellent. MELANIE WARRICK: Wonderful. What do you see
this evolving into? Like, what is the future
plans for Grace.health? THERESE MANNHEIMER:
Ooh, world domination. No, but– [LAUGHTER] MELANIE WARRICK: Sounds great. THERESE MANNHEIMER:
We really want Grace to be a household name. We want us to be the first stop,
and the first place you turn, whenever you have an issue. And we also want to
create a service that not only provides
you with education, but actual health care. And so part of our vision
is to, in the near future, or in the future,
at least, to be able to provide actual health
care inside Grace, which is even stressing the point
of accessibility, which means many women don’t have
a doctor close by, which means it could take
them days or weeks to even get there. Some might not have the
money, or afford it. And so, how do we
not only ensure that they know that something
might be wrong, but actually get health care
inside the service? That is a very important
part of our vision. So that’s why we’re not only
saying we are a female health companion, but we want to
build a mobile, global health company that is oriented
towards female health. MELANIE WARRICK: I like that. MARK MANDEL: If people want
to access Grace.health, I know you mentioned it’s
through Facebook Messenger. Is there a website? Or should I search
for something? How do I find this thing? THERESE MANNHEIMER: Yeah, so
we have actually also seen how users behave when a
woman gets a recommendation from a friend, per se. She might actually get the
referral within our service. But she might also
just tell her friend that this service has helped me. And then, we have
seen that behavior of going to the website,
or just searching online, going to Google and
search, is very big. So we’ve created a website
that’s quite user-centric, and so that when you
get to Grace.health, you can actually press
a button that says, Use Grace Now, or Try
Grace Now, which takes you straight to the service. So for anyone who wants to
try it, can go to Grace.health and go through our
website, straight. Or you go to Facebook
Messenger and search in the search field for
Grace.health Period Tracker. MELANIE WARRICK: Perfect. Well, thank you
both for coming on. Is there anything
else that you wanted to share before we let you go? THERESE MANNHEIMER: No, the only
thing I think is interesting, speaking of the startup
program for Google Cloud, I don’t know if it’s
relevant for you now, but something that we would
really like to see more of is sort of allocating
resources to really help us make use of this platform
in the best way possible. So one thing is granting
access to credits. But as Roman also
mentioned, we’re doing something that is, in
our view, quite exploratory and groundbreaking. We’re pushing some boundaries. So for us to really be able
to leverage that platform to its full extent,
and to also be able to make a really
strong case for Dialogflow, also having access
to an engineer, or to be part of a bouncing
session with someone who’s really well-known
in the product, could be very valuable for us. ROMAN JASINS: Absolutely. Couldn’t agree more. And we’re also very happy
to share deeper insights that sometimes hard to put
in the web form, of things that we have tried
and they didn’t work, or they did work differently. So all this, we’re very happy to
have this two-way conversation with Google. MARK MANDEL: Fantastic. Well, Therese, Roman, thank
you so much for your time. This sounds like
an amazing project. So please keep
continuing with it. It’s just amazing. MELANIE WARRICK: Yes. Thank you. MARK MANDEL: And yeah, thank
you very much for joining us. THERESE MANNHEIMER:
Thank you for having us. ROMAN JASINS: Thank
you for having us. MELANIE WARRICK: Thank
you, Therese and Roman, very much for coming
on the podcast. I’m glad we got a
chance to get you on. I know we’ve been working on
that actually most of the year. MARK MANDEL: Yeah, for a while. MELANIE WARRICK: So it
was good to finally get that podcast in place. MARK MANDEL: Indeed. MELANIE WARRICK: Well,
Mark, with background cloud functions, how can I set
up to retry on failure? MARK MANDEL: Great question! MELANIE WARRICK: I know,
it’s such a good question. MARK MANDEL: That’s
such a good question. MELANIE WARRICK:
It’s so amazing. MARK MANDEL: So if you’re
running a cloud function, but you want it to respond to
something like a Google Cloud Pub/Sub topic, or a change
in Google Cloud Storage Bucket, or maybe
a Firebase event, you’re going to write
a background function. But maybe that
background function talks to something that’s
intermittently down. Like, maybe there’s
a database that needs to go into
maintenance sometimes, or a third-party API
that needs to go down, or isn’t necessarily as
stable as you would like. So you want to make
sure that these retry until basically they pass. This is actually
pretty straightforward. So when you deploy your
background function, you can basically add a
dash dash retry to it. You can do the same thing
for the console as well. And that will retry
until it succeeds. You should probably be
aware that retry on failure does cause your function
to be retried repeatedly until it successfully executes. MELANIE WARRICK: And
you don’t want to end up with infinity retry loops. MARK MANDEL: Yep, or
the maximum retry period has elapsed, which
can be multiple days. So if it’s a bug or
anything like that, you’ll need to delete it. But make sure that you test
your stuff before you do stuff. But it’s pretty straightforward. It’s a really easy thing to
just be able say, hey, retry. You don’t have to build
any logic into your code. It will just do that for you. MELANIE WARRICK: And if you want
to avoid infinity retry loops, you can set an end
condition to avoid that. MARK MANDEL: Oh, nice. Yes. That’s a good idea too. Awesome. MELANIE WARRICK: Yes. It’s good best practice. Thank you, Mark. All right, Mark. Where are you going to be? MARK MANDEL: Where
am I going to be? I will be in
KubeCon in December. I’m pretty excited. I looked through the schedule,
and I’ve planned out everywhere I’m going. I’m really excited. MELANIE WARRICK: You
know all the places? MARK MANDEL: Yep. MELANIE WARRICK: All
the places you will go? MARK MANDEL: I think so. And yourself? MELANIE WARRICK: I will
be at this unconference at the end of the
month in Toronto. And that is also known
as SOCML, or however you want to pronounce the acronym. MARK MANDEL: That’s
going to be cold. MELANIE WARRICK: Yeah. Yeah, ’cause you know,
I like to be cold. MARK MANDEL: Yeah. MELANIE WARRICK: I
just hope it’s not as much smoke in the air. And then I’m going
to be in Montreal. Because, you know, Montreal
is going to be so much warmer. But I’m going to go
to these two workshops at a conference that are known
as Black in AI, and LatinX. I went to Black in AI last year,
and it was really fantastic. So I highly recommend it, if you
have the ability to go there, or you’re going to be
in the Montreal area. MARK MANDEL: Fantastic. MELANIE WARRICK: Yeah. MARK MANDEL: Awesome. Well, Melanie, thank
you for joining me on the podcast for
yet another week. MELANIE WARRICK:
Thank you, Mark. MARK MANDEL: And thank
you all for listening. And we’ll see you all next week. [MUSIC PLAYING]

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *