Rutger Bregman – “Utopia for Realists” and Big Ideas for an Equitable Economy | The Daily Show

Rutger Bregman – “Utopia for Realists” and Big Ideas for an Equitable Economy | The Daily Show

-Welcome to the show.
-It’s great to be here. Uh, a few months ago,
for many people, your name did not exist in
their minds at all in any way, and now you are a superstar, especially
for many young people, because of your views
in and around tax and the super wealthy
around the world. How did you come to this
from-from what you do? Because you’re a…
you’re a historian. -Yeah, yeah. -In fact,
you are a Dutch historian. I’m a Dutch historian. That’s how everyone refers
to you– “the Dutch historian.” I think, you know,
I’m really part of a… of a much wider movement,
you know, a whole new generation that thinks that we need
to move on to… to new ideas. And basically,
that realize that we need a massive transformation
of our economy, so… And I was just in a place,
at the World Economic Forum, where usually not many people
get to go there, and was just one
of the few people there, -I mean, talking common sense.
-Right. We actually have a clip, um, that went viral. If we can play that right now? Almost no one raises the real
issue of tax avoidance, right? And of the rich just
not paying their fair share. I mean, it feels like I’m
at a firefighters conference, and no one’s allowed
to speak about water. This is not rocket science. I mean, we can talk
for a very long time about all these stupid
philanthropy schemes. We can invite Bono once more,
but come on, it’s… we got to be talking
about taxes. That’s it– taxes, taxes, taxes. All the rest is bullshit,
in my opinion. So, this was–
to give people context– this was you sitting with
the richest people in the world. -Yeah. -And you were…
you were… -(laughter) you were actually supposed to be
there to talk about just, like, the other aspects of your book, -like universal basic income,
et cetera, -Yeah. and you surprised everyone
with that. -They were not happy. -They
didn’t really like that, no. -(laughter)
-I was, I mean, I was supposed to go there
and promote my book, talk about
universal basic income, -Yes. -which has become
a really popular idea. But, you know,
during the conference, I became more
and more uncomfortable, uh, because you can talk
about all sorts of issues there. Feminism,
participation, equality. But then no one raises
the “T” word. Right? You’re not… -People don’t really talk
about taxes… -Yes. So, I-I just went
to my hotel room and prepared this short speech. And I got the question
from-from the moderator and basically ignored
his question and, uh, went ahead. (laughter) Since that… since that little, um, moment
in Davos, have you noticed a few
private jets following you now? -Have you, uh…
-(laughter) Because it seems like
something that… that would piss a lot of really,
really wealthy people off, -that idea of them paying more
tax and them avoiding it. -Yeah. Why do you think
that’s more important or should be, like,
one of the main conversations apart from transparency
and equality and philanthropy? Well, you know,
I’m a historian, right? So, um, if I see someone like,
say, President Trump talk about, “We should
make America great again,” wants to go back to the ’50s
or something like that, I’m like, “Yeah, well,
maybe that’s a good idea.” Because in the ’50s, we had much higher tax rates
for the rich. In fact,
a billionaire like Trump -would pay, like, 90%
of marginal tax rate. -Right. Uh, the estate tax was over 70%
for people like Trump. So, uh, yeah. I mean,
make America great again. Bring back
those higher tax rates. -That would be my slogan.
-Do you… (cheering and applause) There are…
there are many people who’d argue against you
and say to you, “Yeah, I mean, you say you want
to raise taxes on the wealthy, “but the wealthy
are already paying “their fair share of taxes. “People are paying almost 50%
of what they earn. Isn’t that fair?”
How do you respond to them? You know, there’s this whole
boring debate in this country about, you know,
capitalism versus socialism. Um, for my perspective,
it sounds a bit ridiculous. Like, we’re talking about ideas
like Medicare for all. 70% of all Americans
is in favor of that. Higher taxes on the rich.
75% is in favor of that. -Right.
-So it’s utterly mainstream. And I know that sort of
the standard response here is always,
“Oh, that sounds like communism. That sounds like Venezuela.” But it’s not communism.
It’s common sense. Right? It’s-it’s what
most people support. (applause) Let me… let me ask you this. One of the things I know get… that gets thrown at me
all the time is people go, “Oh, you raise the taxes,
and everyone’s gonna leave.” Because, I mean,
you know, if you… if you raise the taxes
for the rich, then the rich are gonna go live
in countries where they don’t have to pay
as much tax. And then you’ve lost all
of those incomes, and you’ve lost all
of those people in your country. Well, America’s the most
powerful country in the world. You know, it could easily
crack down on tax paradises, -like Holland, where I’m from,
right? -Right. We’re one
of the main tax paradises for American corporations. So, you know,
that’s really a matter of-of political will, I guess. Just them being willing to say, “Hey, we’re gonna tax you
no matter where you go, -no matter what you do.”
-Yeah. Yeah. It’s interesting that
you-you fight for these ideas when you come from Europe. People would say to you,
“But-but, Rutger, you come from a country
where things are great.” You do have all
of these services. People are not struggling
as much as they are in other parts of the world. -Why is it so important
to you, then? -Mm-hmm. Well, I mean,
the American debate is incredibly influential
back in Holland, right? So, uh, and we’ve got rising
inequality in Europe, as well. -Right. -Uh, and the welfare
state that is under pressure. But, I mean, it’s also true that if I look at a debate,
right– Medicare for all, for example– America is the only country
in the rich world that doesn’t have it. And still it has the most
expensive health care system, and life expectancy
is going down. So, yeah,
that seems pretty ridiculous. You have a bunch of ideas
that many people would consider ridiculous,
depending on their age, and I find a lot of young people
genuinely love as genius. -Mm-hmm. -Um,
Utopia for Realists is the book that you wrote, and it’s come
back into prominence again because you-you–
It’s just, like, a fun read. You talk about all
of these ideas and how they could
actually be implemented, which is interesting.
It’s not just the ideas. Universal basic income, uh,
open borders, 15-hour workweek. Really, just– I mean,
this is, like, a book– This is like Freddy Krueger
for a GOP person. This is–
this is like nightmare stories. -That’s what this is. Um…
-Yeah. Indeed. They just need a picture of Rupert Murdoch
reading my book. I actually did– I did see that.
We have that picture. -Rupert Murdoch.
-Yeah. (laughing) NOAH: Like,
how do you feel about– That– There is– there is one of the
people you’re speaking about. I-I framed it, obviously. It’s,
uh– it’s a wonderful picture. -Yeah. -Like, when you talk
about these issues, -like universal basic income,
for instance, -Mm-hmm. seems like a-a crazy idea. -Yeah. -You’re just gonna pay
people to not work? -Then why would anyone work?
-Yeah. Well, what n-not many people
know, actually, is that, if you go back to the
’60s, almost everyone believed– all the experts believed–
that some form of basic income was going to be implemented
in the United States. And it was actually
Richard Nixon, of all people, who had a bill
for a modest basic income that got through the House
of Representatives twice and was only killed
in the Senate by Democrats, not because they didn’t like
the idea of completely eradicate po–
eradicating poverty but because they wanted
a higher basic income. So it’s-it’s
a pretty bizarre history, -uh, that I’ve, you know,
describe in the book. -Wow. Uh, another-another bizarre
thing is that, actually, there were major trials
with basic income in the U.S. back then.
You know, thousands of families -received a basic income just
to test what would happen. -Yes. Turns out it was
really effective. You know, health care costs
went down, crime went down, kids did much better in school. But then there was
one problematic finding, is that they also found
that the divorce rates went up, you know, quite a lot. Because a lot of women
were like, “Okay, I’m gonna leave
that-that asshole.” -(laughs) And, uh…
-(cheering and applause) Um… But then– but then
only conservatives, obviously, said, “Okay, we don’t want
basic income anymore. This is gonna make women
much too independent.” Right?
It was only ten years later that they found out
that they had-had made a statistical mistake.
So, in reality, the divorce rate did not go up. -Oh, man. -It’s-it’s
a pretty bizarre history, -full of, uh… -Let me–
let me ask you this then. As-as a historian
who is basing your argument on things
that have actually happened, does it frustrate you when
you see politicians like Trump, um, I guess,
misstating their plans based on a history that they–
that they don’t seem -to understand themselves?
Because, like you said, -Mm-hmm. Trump says, “We’re gonna do it
the way it was.” But then when you propose
the way it was, he’s like, “No, I-I don’t like that.” Do you think that,
as people, in general, we just don’t know enough
about our histories? Well, what frustrates me
the most are these people, these so-called moderates,
the centrists, who say, “Oh, that’s never gonna happen,
you know? That is too radical.” -Right. -Uh,
if you zoom out a little bit, you see that,
so many times in history, utopian fantasies
have become reality. -Um, I think that’s important
to keep in mind. -Such as? -You know, d-democracy was once
a crazy idea, right? -Right. The end of slavery was once
a total fantasy. It all happened. But it
never starts in the center. It always happens–
starts in the fringes, with people who are
first dismissed as radical, as crazy, as-as lunatics, right? So, uh, I guess we got to be
a bit unreasonable sometimes. You have to be unreasonable to
move the conversation forward. The 15-hour workweek is probably
my favorite part of your book. How-how does that even begin
to work? Yeah. Well, it g-goes back
to a very old idea, actually, of the-the economist
John Maynard Keynes. He wrote this essay in 1930
that, you know,
sort of make two predictions. The first prediction was, -we’re gonna be a lot richer
in the future. -Mm-hmm. Right? If we don’t
make stupid mistakes -like start another world war…
-Right. or have austerity
during times of crisis. Well, we did that.
But anyway… We’ll be a lot richer,
and then we’ll use that wealth to work a little bit less
each year. And, um, then he just
extrapolated and said, we’ll have
a 15-hour work week in 2030. The fascinating thing again,
from the historical perspective is that up until the ’70s,
you know, we were on track to-to make it. You know,
the work week was shrinking and shrinking and shrinking. And the experts were predicting
that the biggest challenge of the future was gonna be
boredom. It’s only around 1980 that, you know,
throughout the developed world, we’ve been starting to working
more and more, and we’ve been
keeping on inventing these jobs -that don’t really need
to exist. -Right. Right? So people sitting
in offices sending… sending e-mails all day to
people they don’t really like, -and writing reports no one’s…
-(laughter) no one’s ever gonna read, right?
So, uh, that’s what they… The-the academic term is
“bullshit jobs.” Um… -(laughter)
-Um… yeah. -Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it’s just like basically,
you just sit there, and then, you’re just like, “To
whom it may concern. Reply all. “As per my last e-mail. -Etcetera, etcetera.”
-There you go. -Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. -Yes, I…
That’s half of my day. -Yeah. But then
the fascinating… -Um… The fascinating thing is
is that most of these jobs, you know, are people who have
wonderful résumés, you know. -Yes.
-Who went to great universities and have wonderful job titles. But then, still, at the end
of the day, they-they’re like, “Mm, you know what?
I could go on strike, and no one would notice.” Um, so in the book, I’ve got
this story of two strikes -that happened in-in
in the ’60s. -Yes. The first strike was of garbage
collectors, New York, 1968. Lost it for six days. State of emergency
had to be declared. -Turns out, we can’t do without
garbage collectors. -Right. So, at the point I wondered–
has it ever happened, you know, in history that the bankers
went on strike? So I started looking. You know, looked to the past
5,000 years basically, since the invention of money,
and I found only one example. And this was in Ireland,
uh, 1970. The bankers were angry that
their wages were not keeping up with inflation, so they said, “You know what?
You’ll have it. “We’re gonna go on strike, and then you’ll see
just how important we are.” And all the experts were like, “Oh, this is gonna be
a disaster. It’s gonna be a heart attack
for the economy.” And then from one day
to the other day, 85% of the money supply was
not accessible anymore. Then… Nothing much happened
actually, so, um… -(laughter) -The strike lasted
for six months in the end. and after six months,
the bankers came back and said, “All right, all right, all
right, we’ll get back to work.” -(laughter)
-And, uh, I think this is another example where
history just makes you rethink, right, who are the real
wealth creators -in this… in this country?
-Right. Right. Is… Does wealth really…? You know, is it really created
at the top, and then,
does it trickle down? Or maybe it’s the other way
around, and… Are the teachers
and the garbage collectors and the nurses– are they
the real wealth creators? Wow. That’s powerful, man. Um… Let me ask you this
as an historian. If we don’t take
these concepts seriously, if we don’t think about
how we protect workers and not the jobs themselves, if we don’t think
about how to get people paying their fair share
of taxes, how we, uh, stop people
avoiding tax, -which is a huge issue…
-Mm-hmm. …what do you then worry
would happen based on history? Well, what I worry
about the most is-is… if… about the moments when people
just don’t have hope anymore for-for a better future, right? So my frustration,
a couple of years ago when I started writing this book
was that I saw so many people, you know, young people or people
who call themselves progressives -who only knew what they were
against, right? -Right. Against austerity,
against racism, against homophobia,
against all these things. And, yes, I’m against them,
as well, -but you also have to know what
you’re actually for. -Right. And that’s why I’m so excited that you see
this whole movement now of, indeed, younger people, who come up with all these
fascinating new ideas. Sometimes old ideas,
sometimes new ideas, -like the… the Green New Deal.
-Uh-huh. Um, that’s what excites me
the most, because we need hope. Wow. Thank you for being
on the show, man. -Really great having you on.
-Thank you very much. Thank you. Utopia for Realists is
a really fascinating read. It’s available now.
Rutger Bregman, everybody.


  1. The only problem with the tax rates in the 50s and 60s in the US, was there were so many loopholes around them, that the rich never ended up paying those 80% or so tax rates they had back then.

  2. Listen to this man! He just tells you what everybody should realize when they allow themselves to think a little bit further than the money you get today in your pocket.

  3. Great interview. And then the Daily Show turns around and insults Andrew Yang who proposes similar ideas. What the fuck.

  4. People don't talk about taxes because of the amount that goes toward aggressive war. If you could have a personal choice not to be involved in that, then taxes would be a valid approach. Otherwise, why would anyone support elitist murderers?

  5. What would happen if the garbage collectors, teachers and nurses did go on strike? That's when we would discover who the real "wealth" creators are – the ones who create opportunities for us to have high qualities of lives.

  6. „Too much and for too long, we seemed to have surrendered personal excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things.
    Our Gross National Product, now, is over $800 billion dollars a year, but that Gross National Product – if we judge the United States of America by that – that Gross National Product counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and the jails for the people who break them. It counts the destruction of the redwood and the loss of our natural wonder in chaotic sprawl. It counts napalm and counts nuclear warheads and armored cars for the police to fight the riots in our cities. It counts Whitman’s rifle and Speck’s knife. And the television programs which glorify violence in order to sell toys to our children.
    Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages, the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country, it measures everything in short, except that which makes life worthwhile.
    And it can tell us everything about America except why we are proud that we are Americans.“
    Robert F Kennedy

  7. In a recent interview Bregman explicitly demanded powerful countries to exert political pressure on tax havens in order to force them into a policy change, as if it was just another acceptable measure to enforce your ideas.
    How are you people not protesting him??

  8. Want the Dutch Utopian Model?!?!?! Ethnically cleansed your society like they do and you're halfway there!!!

  9. Basically it's like how Rich people have Gold plated toilets then start shutting down public restrooms for easy profit , Then start bitching why the poor throw SHIT to their face.

  10. Ow wow, he's talking about collecting taxes and "tells truth to power", how novel and what a wonderful pose to take! This is so fake, you can almost see how the script for this new "media personality" was written – that's how these new people are inserted into the media mainstream.

    Evidently a yet another stooge for the same elites who own all sides of any economic debate who actually make it to mass media. The radicals are those who are in favor of abolishing private property on means of production, everything else is just play pretense, sounding "radical" when you compare it to through and through corporate lapdogs and their servile speeches praising the "job creators".

  11. This is why I’m voting for Andrew Yang 2020.

    Yang is so refreshing as a candidate. UBI properly implemented is one of the most effective, efficient, simple, fair, and cheapest ways to accomplish many of the progressive economic/inequality goals that truly benefit everyone. Get’s the incentives right and it’s bootstraps for everyone.

    Huge effects on poverty, homelessness, prisoner rehabilitation, abused women, sex trade, abortions, unions, upward mobility, charities, marriage, health, mental health, IQ, crime, violence, homicides, suicide, education rates, LGBT community, overall economy, etc

  12., I am Dutch and can tell you he is a nobody over here. 15 hour workweek, basic income, etc. etc. He is a dangerous man and has his facts never right, and indeed he is a lunatic himself. All those bullshit jobs are tax paying people, with no tax you’ve got nothing.

  13. Utopia for realists … look throughout history and find me one , single instance of Utopia.
    It simply never existed … in Ancient Greece where democracy was birthed, ask Socrates how great his Utopia was when he got killed in it.. or how happy the slaves where, heck even teh general population was fighting wars against persia and other Greek city states … Slavery in the western world had always been a divisive subject among people even during its hay day, much like the debates we are having about say the Iraq war or the fact that you are for or against Trump… so all these big changes he has talking about are hyperinflated.

    And he is right that new things and ideas start on the fringes and the ideas he ( I assume) stands behind are the ones where you have special groups with special privileges, a political correctness bordering on Orwellian … check the russian revolution and see what happened with certain groups who were marked as "perpetrators"( in many cases they just did well for themselves) … hint, it starts with a G and ends with enocide.

    Also as a historian he should have mentioned that there are too many possibilities and outcomes and that the "what if's" he is talking about , are the ones he carefully crafted around keynesian economics and that all of the policies that were based on this economic set of theories only worked in the short term … the wellfare state he so honourably defends has caused the greatest increase in broken families in the lower class, especially among black people … yes you heard it right, the wellfare state did more damage to black families than even slavery… Mediccare, the education system, government … honestly everything that is based on keynesian economics and big government has turned out to be broken, ineffective and damaging to the very people they are designed t protect.

    He is right about one thing though and those are taxes, which should be maxed out for everyone to 25% of their income, but simply make the simple adjustment that it should apply to all income … so not just wages, but also on Return on investments, stock trades etc… next to that you would need rigorous government reform in government, as they way things are run now, they could not live on that 25% … so that needs to shrink greatly.

    Other than that, I saw people here discussing his stint on Tucker Carlson … and although Tucker can be an obnoxious git from time to time, in this case he was very polite, agreed with his ideas and was willing to give him a bit of air time… but instead Rutger gave him shit.
    Now it is still a free country so he is free to do that, but I do wonder why he didn't do the same to Trevor here, I mean Trevor also gets his money from some corporate douchebag … and I also wonder why he didn't simply use the platform to maybe reach across the isle .

    In short this Rutger is just trying to sell his book , stir a bit of commotion and then is doing what everyone else does when they hit the big time…big house, nice car … unless he is donating 90% of his income to government, then I would actually respect him for his ideas… I don't agree with him even then, bt I would respect it more

  14. This guy is a historian with no sense of economics. He even gets history wrong 🤦🏻‍♂️. You want someone with similar ideas but actually knows what he is talking about look for Andrew Yang. This dutch dweeb is mentally challenged

  15. Surprised they made no mention of Andrew Yang, running for president with a platform of UBI. Yang also has a plan for tax avoidance. Let's have Yang on the show!

  16. Rutger is Yang Gang and it's not even a secret.

    Andrew Yang is the UBI candidate. Check him out at

  17. This guy would love Andrew Yang! Yang wants to implement a $1000 UBI for everyone in the US 18+ and hes going to pay for it by closing the tax loopholes for the super corporations

  18. Great ideas… sounds a lot like Andrew Yang who is running for President. Maybe you should have him on the show Trevor

  19. Sixty percent of these comments mention Andrew Yang, the Daily Show has to recognize this and give Yang a serious interview.

  20. Andre yang is running for president in 2020 , if you like what Rutger is saying, you should take 5 minutes to search up this candidate. He will be on the debate stage in 3 days

  21. I like this guy but I can not support using the government to steal money from anyone in the form of taxes…

  22. Andrew Yang is running for president on a platform of Universal Basic Income, Healthcare for all, and Human Centered Capitalism. He has already met the DNC debate threshold for the debates in June and July. He is about to meet the threshold for the September debates as well. No corporate donors, smart as a whip, popular with both Democrats and Republicans. Check him out!

  23. I think he identifies as a she. she is an emotional child and immature being trap inside a white bald sexual harasser, and is easily seen when she implemented those Basic Tactics to sabotage an interview or presentation done by another person. The cowardliness of all, was how she censored all what tucker said in response except for tiny parts that further her Communist white agenda

  24. He talks about trump misstating plans? The democrats and leftists just completely lie these days as the try to buy votes from the misinformed.

  25. And this is why I'm actually going to vote finally and give that vote to Andrew Yang!
    The system will always be rigged but it's time we rig it to benefit the American people.

  26. I think america needs more Europeans speaking out about American politics. They have an outsider's perspective on a bubble society where Fox News is normalised and where every hint of socialism is equal to bolshevism even though northern European countries have been practicing it successfully for some time now. And at the same time these european countries manage to be wealthy and free market Integrated places where small businesses do well.

  27. i live in Holland and the Co2 taxes on cars is horrible as example if you want a car like a porsche gt3 and buy it in the Netherlands you can actually get two porsches with the same money in germany

  28. Meanwhile mindless Nazi scum like pew die pie is getting 50 million views in every video radicalizing a generation of dumb 16 year old virgin fascists

  29. His 15 minutes of fame will soon end…His ideas would bankrupt a nation of 300 millions with 30 million illegal immigrates and a reverse pyramid relation of workers to elderly and diminished manufacturing capability.

  30. What a fun conversation. . .NOT! “Oooo, transparency, i’m an historian, check out my slogan, higher taxes for rich people. Oooo, look at me. I propose taxes are interesting”. Fuck off, the government wastes and shits on any monies its given. Being pretentious about caring for un-rich folks is super i dont give two fucks about your dutch i wanna be an American democratic bullshitter. Expectancydoitch twatttlefucker. As if the dutch did not participate in colonization.

  31. Andrew Yang wants to replace (some) welfare with universal basic income. Bregman is not a politician but he wants to extend welfare with UBI. Huge difference in direction of thought.

  32. We are kidding ourselves if you think we can take power and wealth away from the oghlicarcs without blood.It will take the toppling of more than one major western counties governments.

  33. Make America Independent if your not going to respect our copyright laws and register yourself as a company in America utilizing shady business tactics that i have to be completely transparent about is stupid food and water are already abundant in America every single person can eat steak crab and wine if they wanted all they want this notion we need other countries to sustain a universal basic income and medicare for all is retarded and honestly where letting people walk all over us and where letting businesses be lazy in innovations that is costing people there lives

  34. Is 50% fair?
    Well, if you tax a billionaire at 90% and they still make 10s of millions every year, is that fair?
    I think they'll be just fine! Having 2 mega yachts instead of 10 isn't so bad.

  35. Stop calling our country Holland for the benifit of your audience.. Netherlands! Teach them while you have the floor.

  36. Money is a synthetic construct designed to create disparity. Maybe the earth shouldn't be whored out so people like Jeffery Epstein can pay for their third vacation home or mega-yatch.

  37. This dutch soyboy is an example of why the Netherlands has been destroyed by foreigners because they are too liberal and too cowardly to stand up for truth.

  38. If you idolize this Communist (Bregman), you are part of the problem, and you don't deserve to live in America.

  39. Historians are great at extrapolating information from our past but apparently can't see what tomorrow brings. Who would want a lazier worker over a machine that could work almost 24/day?

  40. As a Dutchie it's really weird to see him on this channel, because he is not getting much coverage here. His ideas are 'dumb' here of the right, while UBI is in a way a right policiy. I hope he will gain more attraction in Holland again and politicians will pick it up what Andrew is doing. Every country should get an UBI to make the WORLD GREAT!

    And, why aren't he and Yang talking to each other in a 2 hour long podcast. They can both talk for hours about this stuff. Let's make that happen!

  41. I'm Dutch love him and also the Netherlands sucks at taxes. And i fucking love Andrew Yang. If he becomes president of America the Netherlands might also have a chance!!!

  42. The real truth here, is that taxes aren't enough. Yes, even taxes are a dodge. Real justice would be confiscation of the ill-gotten gains that many of these manipulative corporations and rich people got by writing unfair laws into practice in the first place. They had their hands in things they had no business doing. Nobody is there to punish them. It's a new guilded age. Bernie Sanders and the other liberals talk about it a lot, and Liz talks about a wealth tax this is somewhat like confiscation, but it's not on the scale to make things really equitable.

    I'm not talking about egalitarianism. That would be a real attempt at utopia. What I'm talking about is busting some of these captains of industry down to corporal. They didn't earn it all on their own, nobody does. But they got most of the wealth from it, and it's not only about that, it's that they rigged the system so that the minimum wage wouldn't be increased, so that unions were less powerful or busted up, so that people would be more desperate and have less wherewithal to get jobs they would be qualified for… if not from arbitrarily sending capital and jobs overseas.

    Reforms are needed, higher taxes are definitely needed, but fundamentally, they should have to cede significant property and money. Land, buildings, other assets… they should have to give this stuff to people who they have harmed, which is most of us. They've taken so much from folks. Just putting a tax is more politically safe, but mass confiscation and redistribution is more just. They've redistributed our wealth through their tax cut schemes, we should be able to reacquire it through similar means.

    No BS charity stuff, either. Philanthropy is another scheme of the rich. Rather than paying taxes which actually helps way more people in poverty and other parts of society to be stable, philanthropy is nonsense that you can choose to or not to do. Plus, it's unaccountable. We already lived through the Gilded Age to know it has helped some, but hey we know that Trump had charities he stole from, so maybe we don't need so-called rich people to have philanthropy in lieu of paying higher taxes. Do both, if you want to have it, but at the least do taxes.

  43. This man is incredible. Love the way he took control of the conversation and completely changed the tone of the interview.

  44. Trevor since your actually sitting down and taking this guy seriously about his ideas of a UBI, please do the same for Andrew yang who is actually trying to make these things happen Before it’s too late. #Yang Gang

  45. 4:12 …isnt that basically just the logic of battered spouse syndrome? or just plain old extortion? how long are you going to whore you're self out and degrade you're self simply so people who never should have been allowed to accumulate this money, much of which was gains in unethical and or immoral ways won't leave you? like its like living with vengeful farther who if you don't keep happy by debasing you're self threatens to cut you out of the family will… beside where are they going to go ? Venezuela? china? Russia? Lichtenstein… at this point arguably you might as well cut you're losses and start again… and this time make sure you dont let ths 1980s happen again…

  46. So let me just get this straight, Venezuela was NOT socialism? Thats strange, because everyone couldnt stop singing Venezuela's socialist praises just a few years ago.

  47. How about we have our CIA kidnap this guy. Force him to become an American citizen and then force him to be the Czar of economic advisor for the house and congress. We then also, at gun point force all of Rupert Mudochs news replace Tucker Carlson with a program featuring this guy? We could call it "Its not rocket science" with Rutger Bregman. We would of course allow him visit Holland.

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