Vit K2, MK-7,8,9 & Bambi Able’s LOGIC re: the science

Vit K2, MK-7,8,9 & Bambi Able’s LOGIC re: the science


I recently did a video on on k2 and
it sparked a lot of interests to say the least
Bambi Able gave us some really good information on this not only HIS (BAMBI’S A HE. SORRY, BAMBI.)
personal story but some good logic some very common logic among informed folks
but also you see some logical progression with Bambi as well and in
and in addition she gave us some great citations I’m going to quote some of
this information because again the logic behind this is I think critical first of all HIS point was look you know
we’re headed towards big guns like PCSK9s dropping some of the old
standard stuff like niacin and even statins I agree with with you Bambi I
have not used a lot of PCSK9s I’ve been able to get most of what I need
through proper management of insulin resistance and statins and some of the
other medications there have been a couple of times when we needed to go
go the pcsk9 route but again we tend to overdo the latest greatest and most
costly. Bambi then goes on to say, ” look perhaps MKs are not the answer MK is in
this case meaning menaquinone in MK 7 8 9 the subgroups of vitamin k2 perhaps they’re not the answer – might
not be an answer. However they are a non-toxic idea. So, let’s go back and look
at that and look at some of Bambi’s citations and I think HE made a good
point. Well the first first one is from nutrients October of 2015 it’s looking
at the first question the first question is
does vitamin k2 actually or do the k2 vitamins actually decrease
calcification in coronary arteries again you can look this citation up it’s in
Bambi’s comments I’ll repeat it as well in the explanation around this video but
it’s Vossle LM, and associates in NUTRIENTS magazine October of 2015
the bottom line was they looked at coronary artery calcification and Agatston score. Now they really didn’t
get too deep into the the results there but that’s okay there are there are
other studies that look at the actual results this one happened in a murine
model that means a mouse model so in the in nutrients magazine in August three
months before they looked at mice and said there’s no question M K’s 7,8 & 9
I think did decrease calcification cardiovascular
calcification at least in mice and that’s Scheiber NUTRIENTS
magazine August of 2015 so now they went on to say it didn’t decrease
hypertension it did not decrease the breakdown of elastin fibers but it did
and it didn’t also it didn’t say well does that decrease in calcification
result in a decreased cardiovascular event right all critical questions and
does that translate over to humans again each study that there’s a reason why
most studies say further research is indicated because no study answers every
question BAMBI gave us another citation again a
very appropriate and good one This one has to do
with MK seven eight and nine and impact on the incidence of coronary disease
this is nutritional metabolism cardiovascular disease of 2009. this
is an old study and I think this study is actually what raised a lot of the
interest in this area. A HIGH MENAQUINONE INTAKE REDUCES THE INCIDENCE
OF CORONARY HEART DISEASE. Basically what they’re saying is yes they did look
at this and there’s a large study it was from the prospect EPIC cohort. EPIC
cohort sixteen thousand women between nineteen ninety three ninety seven aged
forty nine to seventy years they did see some decrease in the the rate of
cardiovascular disease with increased again in case seven eight and nine
so that should have settled it right very strong evidence you get a decrease
in heart attack and stroke from ingesting k2. Well not so fast.
if you look at the – the hazard ratio was point nine one if it’s less than one
then it’s decreasing risk or it’s inversely proportional to cardiovascular
risk that would be the ingestion of k2 if it’s greater than one it would be
increasing these women’s risk for cardiovascular events now let’s look at
the next item the the 95 percent confidence intervals they actually went
from 0.85 to 1.0 now what does that mean well that means if you’re looking at
this how what’s the probability that this could have happened at random and
the answer is it actually could have happened at random. there’s just a random event the
whole study results but now why is that there are a whole bunch of reasons most
common reason for these though is that the study effect itself may have been
little enough to where you could not rule this out from a random event in
other words maybe a weak study signal or another way of saying this may be MK
seven eight and nine ingestion do help but if they do it appears that at least
from the study results that we just looked at then it helps very little so
here back to Bambi Able’s comments in
logic so then HE goes on to say, “look I’ve been continuing to read about this
and I’m beginning to actually – I wonder – does decreasing calcium in a
stable plaque actually decrease the stability of that stable plaque?” In other
words it’s calcium like mortar. John Lorscheiderr was strong in that area we
he gave us a couple of good citations there and then there after considering
that Bambi goes on to say, “you know what I did some research in this area
you know the prudent course would probably be to let sleeping dogs lie.” In
other words if we’re really that focused on pulling calcium out of our stable
plaque maybe we should let sleeping dogs lie. So again there’s a long putt between looking at the evidence and saying yes
k2 does decrease calcium and decreasing calcium in stable plaque is a good thing
to do and it’s going to decrease heart attack and stroke. So I would agree with
you Bambi I originally started with the same logic .you know – why would it
hurt? it’s probably non-toxic. then as I started to look at some of John’s
information some of this issue about plaque stability and calcium said you
know maybe we ought to let sleeping dogs lie. In case you don’t recognize this
this is my more overriding concern and that is – bottom line is – vast majority of
us are fiddling while Rome burns. We may find some some good things with k2
however the vast majority of patients that I see coming in have significant
inflammation of their arteries going on right now and they’re ignoring it
they’re focusing on supplements like k2 which is not totally proven yet
meanwhile they’ve got high insulin values many of them have high blood
sugar values and they’ve never really checked it and most they’ve checked
fasting glucose or hemoglobin a1c and are you know typically will have a 5.7
5.8 on hemoglobin a1c and think that they’re okay . No you’re not! You’re
fiddling while Rome burns! . Even patients with a – several – a lot of patients with
normal sugars still have maintained those normal sugar values by overworking
their pancreas putting out way too much insulin and insulin in and of itself is
an inflammatory factor. So again I would say if we’re focusing on things like k2
and some of these other supplements but we’re ignoring our blood glucose our
insulin values were fiddling while Rome burns. thank you

46 comments

  1. I wonder if anyone ever looked at the health and life span of the average PGA tour player. I've been playing and watching golf since 1992. You never hear of these guys ever having CVD or type 2. I wonder if it has anything to do that they walk about 7 miles when they golf everydsy.

  2. Question: isn’t the reason we take K2-MK7 to help with the metabolic action of calcium entering the body? I’m not taking K2 to clean up my arteries. I just want the calcium I ingest through food to end up in my bones, and not end up clogging my arteries. I figure I can worry about what is in the arteries when my doc says I need to start a statin.

  3. Lots of good questions raised! It seems to me that addressing the inflammation is the first priority, most folks are looking for the magic pill, without them having to make any major changes, be that K2, D3, etc when the reality is, put the fire out!

  4. in supplementation with Ca they give the magnesium with calcium in order to avoid that the Ca fix in the arteries, because the Ca gona calcificate the artery before the bone, and there is evidence on that

  5. Dr. Brewer here is the old article on cortisol but can't find the article I did on plasma albumen. But it was the same study.
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10357033/

  6. Then do we worry about our coronary calcium score? Mine was 0 but does it matter or indicate good health or even a good test.

  7. I think your discussion/review of k2 was EXCELLENT. K2 and the reduction of calcium in arteries is not a particular interest of mine, but the thinking you demonstrated regarding what we should be worrying about is helpful and instructive. I warn my friends and teacher colleagues about inflammation, use of carbohydrates as a food source, general cardiovascular conditioning, and temperance regarding all things which enter the body. ‘Fiddling’ must stop and insulin resistance must be talked about more, not stuff around the edges. Sorry for long response but I think this is my favorite video because of the thinking.

  8. Dr. Brewer, I would be interested to know your view on telomeres and telomerase therapy which is gaining popularity in biological aging. If it is of interest to you, would you care to review latest literature?

  9. I guess the question I'm left with is, after having moved to a healthier diet and increasing exercise, is there any way to reduce arterial plaques that doesn't increase risk of creating hot plaque clots?

  10. I take K2 for osteopenia. Growing up I was never a cheese eater or milk drinker or much of a meat eater either. So, that's why I take it. And I get more calcium through food than I used to.

  11. #1 Thank you for consideration of my comments #2 I never meant that k-2 alone is an answer to all things cardiovascular [or cerebrovascular] but more that it may be an adjunct to statins, blood pressure control, weight management, good diet, exercise and blood sugar management #3 Aging, vascular complications, pancreas issues, kidney problem, general weakening of every system is occurring and these share both discrete as well as multifactoral approaches too slowing progression [and perhaps some regression]. and finally #4….BAMBI WAS A BOY DEER !!!!!!

  12. When I first started ingesting K2-MK7 my nails hardened and began to grow stronger at age 72. Long hard fingernails. Prior to K2 they flaked and never grew. I now have very little plaque build up in my teeth. My teeth even feel different, stronger maybe. Before adding K2 I began D3. My nails would grow, chip then break. ( I'm also on a Keto diet). At my last blood test, I was spilling a little calcium. The Dr said wasn't enough to worry about. Something is happening and it's positive. I've always wanted long beautiful nails. Shame I had to wait until age 72 to get them, but I still love them even at my age.

  13. Hello Dr. Ford, your comment on a1c being 5.7 is a concern and insulin causing inflammation do you have video on this, what would be a normal a1c result? Thank

  14. I'm so confused! Doesn't the build up of calcium add to a greater risk of a heart attack? Please explain your distinction between plaque and calcium. What's the difference? Is it the plaque that's killing us and how so if the calcium is sitting on top of the plaque? I'm trying to wrap my brain around this. So the calcium is sitting on top of the plaque, right? Please explain.

  15. worrying about tyre tread whilst the breaks are falling apart. Very good question, what happens to the plaque once you remove the 'cement' and simple logic would say…more likely harm than good. Once the 'sore' is opened up it gets attacked again, made hot?

  16. The important 'Critical' question is does K2 mk7 reduce calcification of plaques, it would stand to reason that calcification would be reduced in areas where it is not needed (because there has been a constant over supply of calcium into the system), and deposited to where it should be – ie teeth, bones and….plaques??
    The reason to focus on D3/K2 is that a CAC scores is a good indicator of future CV event, and I've seen this stated in lectures.
    "The CAC score is a strong predictor of CHD incidence, and provides predictive information beyond the traditional risk factors in different ethnic groups." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2922321/

    So if you have a bad CAC score it indicates an immediate change in lifestyle needed, and that score reduced over time.
    After having read a ton of papers regarding the processes of calcification, risk factors and so on, and also the apparent success of K2 on CAC ….. I am starting to think that the function of K2 in the body is to direct calcium to specific places (bone, teeth), including CV breaches and plaques. And thus IF directing calcium to CV plaques is a natural function of the body via K2, then K2 isn't going to remove what it is designed to do. However the excess calcium in the body that gets deposited in other tissue can be activated and redirected via D3/K2 Calcium with plaques is a type of 'immune' response as it were, calcium in other tissue is simply dumping. This is my opion……so far.

  17. This is a quite thourough discussion of what K2 is, all the things it does, how it operates, and covering the various benefits including CV and aortic calcification, plus covering a few studies. I found it very imformative. From Microbiome Labs. Its 47 minutes but covers most things, and lot of things we wouldn't have guessed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-KGceRenn4

  18. Well done again Dr. Brewer. I especially think your last comments were right on: taking any supplement while ignoring obvious risk factors like high blood pressure, being over weight, poor diet, lack of exercise is a fools errand. I do take K2, but not as a pill, I eat natto on a regular basis. It's hard to find, and it is nasty, but a great natural source of K2.

  19. So, have added K2 to your list of tools to fight CVD?

    I find it odd that you can't admit that you were wrong in your initial video by mixing and matching two studies and drawing incorrect conclusions from them. In this video, you deflect by pointing to the elephant in the room, insulin resistance/diabetes.

    The Matrix Gla-Protein's purpose is to eliminate calcium in soft tissues, it a trash collector/eliminator. It only works only if it is carboxylated with vitamin K2, essentially un-carboxylated Matrix Gla-Protein is broken and not functioning trash collection. If you have Un-carboxylated Matrix Gla-Protein you are by definition suffering from Vitamin K2 deficiency. You are advocating that people should remain Vitamin K2 deficient.

    Did you see the Rotterdam study from 2004? 50% reduction in risk of arterial calcification and 50% risk reduction for cardiovascular events with 4800 humans?

  20. So if we leave sleeping dogs lie, does that mean niacin is back on the table? Separately I take D3 and use K2 to help calcium go to the right places; bones but certainly seems like k2 dosage should be a consideration. Thanks…

  21. Yes all good points my friends…but..,thats where serrapeptase and other systemic digestive enzymes come into play, because they then eat up (digest) the stuff that the k2 pulls of the blood vessel walls…like little pac men.., as does your "good" cholesterol.. then you take organic sulfur (msm) to then repair the damage on the blood vessel walls (endothelial) and then vitamins C&E to keep them nice and shiny..!
    Simple..

  22. Very good!
    Agree that a person is better off focusing on the metabolic fundamentals than attempting to erode arterial calcium structures (more research is needed). It's clear that minimizing the rate of calcification has an enormous impact on mortality.

  23. Although this is an old video I thought I should still comment. If K2 reduces the calcium buildup slowly.. maybe it's meant to.. so that the damaged area has time to rectify or reduce it's threat and for other events that have led to the calcium buildup to remedy themselves. Humans seem to always think that they know better (by assumption).

  24. Dr i have been takeing heart healthy supplements and have had a fast heart rate for 24 hours a day for the past week, do you know what could be causeing it?

  25. Obviously a healthy diet (low insulin, low GI, low GL, low in sugar, low in carbs, low in seeds oils) should be the first step. Anything else would simply be counterproductive to anything else one might additionally try. I don’t believe in magic pills & our society is constantly being sold on them. The jury is still out on K2-7, but a couple things are on my mind about K2-7: 1) First rule of any medicine practitioner is “do no harm”. From what I can research, K2-7 isn’t toxic. At the very least, It could work better than coq10 in regards to mitochondria activity. 2) Some published studies have the patients taking 100 mcg or less, when 320 mcg is recommended for all of K2-7 benefits. I’d like to see a dosage study. 3) Not a huge fan of epidemiology, but the Japan study was impressive. 4) Not impressed with mice findings because they may not translate to humans, but at the same time every drug has to start there (that or pigs). So when one says it “was only mice” that’s true but somewhat of a cop-out as well. It’s considered inhumane to start anywhere else (for good reasons). 5) Whether K2-7 helps clear out artery plaque build-up is one question. Whether K2-7 (along w/ D3 & magnesium) helps with new calcium distribution ( & absorption ) is another. 6) Some dentists have started to prescribe K2-7 for plaque buildup and overall teeth health with reported success.

    I’d love more studies on K2-7 & hopefully one day we can all get more answers on this subject. But it does seem to pass the ‘do no harm’ test. (Unless you’re on other drugs like blood-thinners or warfarin).

  26. As a woman, I look at Japan and other countries with high k2 consumption and the great reduction of osteoporosis in countries with high K2, and I will take it. Not everything is about blood vessels.

  27. Agreed. Supplementation is seldom a magic bullet. It may help to take K2 as part of a healthy life style over many decades. Not as a fix when you already have significant health problems.

  28. K2 seems not to reduce existing calcification very much but, with D3 & magnesium, it does seem very helpful in bone health and other areas.

  29. Does Vitamin k2 remove calcium deposits from arteries?
    After 12 weeks, there was a 53% reduction in accumulated arterial calcium deposits. The groups receiving the high-dose vitamin K1 and K2 also showed a reversal in carotid artery stiffness. This study provided intriguing evidence that vascular calcification may be reversible by high vitamin K intake.

  30. I think Mk7 + D3 is pushing down a wisdom tooth at my age, 59… shame some teeth are missing, but something is sticking down and I’m pretty sure u don’t get three sets of teeth!

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